Posts Tagged ‘St Nicholas' Market’

History Debunked Gets Nostalgic for the Polite Violence of British Football Hooligans

September 21, 2022

As against the really nasty, gun and knife violence of Blacks and other ethnic minorities. A few days ago, Simon Webb of History Debunked put up a video arguing that the reason Britain has become a much more violent society is because of non-White immigration. Yes, he conceded, riots and violence had occurred before mass Black and Asian immigration, but they were much less dangerous than currently. When fights broke out, as between different gangs of football hooligans, it largely involved fists. Knives and guns were rarely used. Now Webb does have a point here. The Lotus Eaters put up a video a few days ago of them speaking to Nick Buckley, a former police officer and anti-knife crime activist. Buckley stated that some of this violence did come from ethnic minorities importing their own cultural attitudes towards violence. An example of this was machetes, which came from Africa. But he did not have such a rosy view of indigenous British violence. Britain had in the past been an extremely violent society, but this had been successfully combated. And now we needed to start the process again with the new immigrants and their armed violence.

Absolutely. Here’s a couple of piccies I found of items issued to 19th century coppers for their own defence and protection. They come from Michele Byam’s Eyewitness Guides: Arms and Armour, published by Dorling Kindersley in 1988.

The above is a photo of a ‘stock’, a leather collar that was issued to the officers by some police forces to prevent them from being garrotted.

There was also this police sword. They weren’t carried by policemen on duty and were usually kept back at the police station. But they were issued for use in riots. One of the photos in one of the pubs around St. Nicholas’ Market in Bristol shows a group of 19th century cops drawn up in ranks practising their swordsmanship ready for just such a situation. I also remember hearing on a programme about 19th century crime that London was such a violent place that at any one time a certain high percentage of its officers would be off work recovering from injuries. 19th century Britain was far more violent than today, and if the criminals didn’t have knives, they had the ‘shiv’, which was often a cut-throat razor stuck into a cork. And Glasgow had a particularly nasty reputation for razor gangs.

This violence was successfully fought, in my opinion, through rising prosperity and the emergence of a culture of working-class respectability. My hope is that the same can be and will be done to crush the culture of violence in some parts of Britain’s ethnic communities.

Webb also stated that all the recent rioting could be correlated with immigrant communities and gave a list of them. This including the rioting across Britain in 1981/2, which was racial. But there have been other riots by Whites. Later in the 1980s or ’90s there was a riot in Hartcliffe in Bristol, which at the time was largely but not exclusively White. And I’m sure there have been other riots across the country that were the same, but have not been so notable because the rioters were Whites rather than Blacks or other ethnic minorities.

But there were other things Buckley said that probably didn’t go down too well with the true-blue Tories of the Lotus Eaters. Some of the rise of violence was blamed on the limits placed on stop and search, because more Blacks were stopped than Whites. But Buckley defended on it on the grounds that he’d been stopped and searched when he was a younger. And the reason why Blacks were stopped more than Whites was simply because Blacks were responsible for a higher proportion of crime. That was just statistics. The Lotus Eaters believed that the limits on stop and search had been put there by Blair. But he actually blamed David Cameron, who wanted to copy Blair in that regard, and Theresa May, who as home secretary took 20,000 coppers off the beat. As for the return of stop and search, Buckley stated that many communities were in favour of it because they wanted more police protection. Thus, in every council ward before an election, communities were asked if they wanted more policing, with the only answer either a ‘yes’ or a ‘no’. If they answered yes, they had stop and search. Complaints of racism were to be ignored and rebutted, because the community had asked for it.

The Lotus Eaters would clearly support the return of stop and search, but I got the impression that the last thing they wanted to hear about the rise in violent crime is that it was due to Dodgy Dave Cameron and Tweezer curbing stop and search and cutting police numbers. Oh dear. How sad. Never mind.

In the meantime, let’s also recognise that while violent crime may have increased in Britain, there have also been horrifically high rates of it during the 19th century when it was driven by Whites.