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	<title>Comments on: The Church and the British Government&#8217;s Human Embryology Research Bill</title>
	<atom:link href="http://beastrabban.wordpress.com/2008/03/26/the-church-and-the-british-governments-human-embryology-research-bill/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://beastrabban.wordpress.com/2008/03/26/the-church-and-the-british-governments-human-embryology-research-bill/</link>
	<description>Just another WordPress.com weblog</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 20 Dec 2009 11:50:44 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Ilíon</title>
		<link>http://beastrabban.wordpress.com/2008/03/26/the-church-and-the-british-governments-human-embryology-research-bill/#comment-1531</link>
		<dc:creator>Ilíon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 10:59:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beastrabban.wordpress.com/?p=70#comment-1531</guid>
		<description>And if you are having a personal feud with me, well then, I suppose congratulations are in order ... since these things generally take two parties and I am *trying* to ignore you because I just don&#039;t care to deal with a significant portion of your behavior.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And if you are having a personal feud with me, well then, I suppose congratulations are in order &#8230; since these things generally take two parties and I am *trying* to ignore you because I just don&#8217;t care to deal with a significant portion of your behavior.</p>
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		<title>By: Ilíon</title>
		<link>http://beastrabban.wordpress.com/2008/03/26/the-church-and-the-british-governments-human-embryology-research-bill/#comment-1530</link>
		<dc:creator>Ilíon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 10:55:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beastrabban.wordpress.com/?p=70#comment-1530</guid>
		<description>Didn&#039;t I *ask* you to bother someone else?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Didn&#8217;t I *ask* you to bother someone else?</p>
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		<title>By: JOR</title>
		<link>http://beastrabban.wordpress.com/2008/03/26/the-church-and-the-british-governments-human-embryology-research-bill/#comment-1529</link>
		<dc:creator>JOR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 20:49:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beastrabban.wordpress.com/?p=70#comment-1529</guid>
		<description>You know what? I like Beast too much to clutter up his comments section with personal feuds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know what? I like Beast too much to clutter up his comments section with personal feuds.</p>
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		<title>By: Ilíon</title>
		<link>http://beastrabban.wordpress.com/2008/03/26/the-church-and-the-british-governments-human-embryology-research-bill/#comment-1528</link>
		<dc:creator>Ilíon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 11:57:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beastrabban.wordpress.com/?p=70#comment-1528</guid>
		<description>&quot;&lt;i&gt;Then you insulted me.&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

On top of everything else, you lie.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;<i>Then you insulted me.</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>On top of everything else, you lie.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: JOR</title>
		<link>http://beastrabban.wordpress.com/2008/03/26/the-church-and-the-british-governments-human-embryology-research-bill/#comment-1527</link>
		<dc:creator>JOR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 21:02:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beastrabban.wordpress.com/?p=70#comment-1527</guid>
		<description>Ilion, when I think that someone is wrong I at least try to inform them of the substance of their errors. Even if I don&#039;t like them.

Anyway, you insisted that the proper use of the word evil has no moral implications. I voiced (typed, whatever) disagreement -- I think the most common use of the word has moral implications, but there is an archaic use of the word that doesn&#039;t; both are legitimate and you can almost always tell how it is being used in context, if you are attentive. Then you insulted me. What else is there to know?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ilion, when I think that someone is wrong I at least try to inform them of the substance of their errors. Even if I don&#8217;t like them.</p>
<p>Anyway, you insisted that the proper use of the word evil has no moral implications. I voiced (typed, whatever) disagreement &#8212; I think the most common use of the word has moral implications, but there is an archaic use of the word that doesn&#8217;t; both are legitimate and you can almost always tell how it is being used in context, if you are attentive. Then you insulted me. What else is there to know?</p>
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		<title>By: Ilíon</title>
		<link>http://beastrabban.wordpress.com/2008/03/26/the-church-and-the-british-governments-human-embryology-research-bill/#comment-1526</link>
		<dc:creator>Ilíon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 12:59:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beastrabban.wordpress.com/?p=70#comment-1526</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t you think it at least mildly interesting, JOR, that *you* &lt;a href=&quot;http://atheismsucks.blogspot.com/2008/03/bill-mahers-sad-anniversary.html?showComment=1206808680000#c8441014239408387942&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;don&#039;t particularly like&lt;/a&gt; the wounded-innocence game when someone tries to play it with you?

Why don&#039;t you try *reading* what I actually wrote.  And then *read* your attempted objections in light of what I actually wrote.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t you think it at least mildly interesting, JOR, that *you* <a href="http://atheismsucks.blogspot.com/2008/03/bill-mahers-sad-anniversary.html?showComment=1206808680000#c8441014239408387942" rel="nofollow">don&#8217;t particularly like</a> the wounded-innocence game when someone tries to play it with you?</p>
<p>Why don&#8217;t you try *reading* what I actually wrote.  And then *read* your attempted objections in light of what I actually wrote.</p>
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		<title>By: JOR</title>
		<link>http://beastrabban.wordpress.com/2008/03/26/the-church-and-the-british-governments-human-embryology-research-bill/#comment-1523</link>
		<dc:creator>JOR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Mar 2008 16:51:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beastrabban.wordpress.com/?p=70#comment-1523</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s usually only the case with philosophers. In ordinary language evil is generally used to mean, not just &#039;immoral&#039; but &#039;very immoral&#039; or &#039;violently immoral&#039;.

I&#039;d be much obliged if shown an example of my disinclination to think. Unlike some people I find it helpful to have my errors pointed out, as I can then correct them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s usually only the case with philosophers. In ordinary language evil is generally used to mean, not just &#8216;immoral&#8217; but &#8216;very immoral&#8217; or &#8216;violently immoral&#8217;.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d be much obliged if shown an example of my disinclination to think. Unlike some people I find it helpful to have my errors pointed out, as I can then correct them.</p>
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		<title>By: Ilíon</title>
		<link>http://beastrabban.wordpress.com/2008/03/26/the-church-and-the-british-governments-human-embryology-research-bill/#comment-1522</link>
		<dc:creator>Ilíon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Mar 2008 07:37:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beastrabban.wordpress.com/?p=70#comment-1522</guid>
		<description>Bother someone else, OK?  Your ways and behaviors, your disinclination to *think* (while presuming to lecture me on critical thinking), bore me.

In any context where &#039;evil&#039; is used, unless the speaker/writer explicitly says something like &quot;&lt;i&gt;moral evil&lt;/i&gt;&quot; or  &quot;&lt;i&gt;natural evil&lt;/i&gt;,&quot;  one has to bring one&#039;s own assumptions into play to decide what is the probable intention of use of the word.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bother someone else, OK?  Your ways and behaviors, your disinclination to *think* (while presuming to lecture me on critical thinking), bore me.</p>
<p>In any context where &#8216;evil&#8217; is used, unless the speaker/writer explicitly says something like &#8220;<i>moral evil</i>&#8221; or  &#8220;<i>natural evil</i>,&#8221;  one has to bring one&#8217;s own assumptions into play to decide what is the probable intention of use of the word.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: JOR</title>
		<link>http://beastrabban.wordpress.com/2008/03/26/the-church-and-the-british-governments-human-embryology-research-bill/#comment-1521</link>
		<dc:creator>JOR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Mar 2008 07:18:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beastrabban.wordpress.com/?p=70#comment-1521</guid>
		<description>Evil can be used to mean either &#039;unpleasant/harmful&#039; or &#039;immoral&#039;. Both of these uses are legitimate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Evil can be used to mean either &#8216;unpleasant/harmful&#8217; or &#8216;immoral&#8217;. Both of these uses are legitimate.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Ilíon</title>
		<link>http://beastrabban.wordpress.com/2008/03/26/the-church-and-the-british-governments-human-embryology-research-bill/#comment-1520</link>
		<dc:creator>Ilíon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Mar 2008 04:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beastrabban.wordpress.com/?p=70#comment-1520</guid>
		<description>&quot;&lt;i&gt;... but do we really believe the ends justify the means?&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

Not if we&#039;re serious about our thoughts/positions and seriously thoughtful about how we arrive at and defend those positions.

&quot;&lt;i&gt;It can be very difficult indeed to argue with consequentialists; indeed you might also draw parallels to the waterboarding debate here.&lt;/i&gt;&quot;
But, at the same time, if we are indeed serious about our thoughts/positions and seriously thoughtful about how we arrive at and defend those positions, we *also* understand that it is the motives and consequences (both actual and rationally foreseeable) which differentiate between two &quot;identical&quot; acts: one immoral, one moral-even-if-evil.


Note: I assume that *you* understand that the word &#039;evil,&#039; used correctly, does not really have a moral implication.  

But many these days do not understand that: people use &#039;&lt;i&gt;evil&lt;/i&gt;&#039; when they mean &#039;&lt;i&gt;wicked&lt;/i&gt;.&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;<i>&#8230; but do we really believe the ends justify the means?</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>Not if we&#8217;re serious about our thoughts/positions and seriously thoughtful about how we arrive at and defend those positions.</p>
<p>&#8220;<i>It can be very difficult indeed to argue with consequentialists; indeed you might also draw parallels to the waterboarding debate here.</i>&#8221;<br />
But, at the same time, if we are indeed serious about our thoughts/positions and seriously thoughtful about how we arrive at and defend those positions, we *also* understand that it is the motives and consequences (both actual and rationally foreseeable) which differentiate between two &#8220;identical&#8221; acts: one immoral, one moral-even-if-evil.</p>
<p>Note: I assume that *you* understand that the word &#8216;evil,&#8217; used correctly, does not really have a moral implication.  </p>
<p>But many these days do not understand that: people use &#8216;<i>evil</i>&#8216; when they mean &#8216;<i>wicked</i>.&#8217;</p>
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